Yes, that would be a pathetic situation for someone. Two BE members have chance to put a loss on Navy to help out in Charlotte, starting this weekend with UConn. I'm not sure UConn can beat them, but even if they do, it probably won't matter. Navy will have to fall apart to not make 6-6. Honestly, how many teams can't get 6 wins when you play UMass, Stanford, Duke, EMU, Temple, & Army? Army could beat them, but since Navy already beat ECU in what I would have called a toss-up game before the season, they'll get 6 even if they lose to Army.

Charlotte really could end up screwing themselves if it turns out they could have taken a high rated team that would bring more fans (WVU or UofL), but they couldn't have necessarily forseen that. I wonder if they must take a 6-6 Navy or if they just must take them at above .500? They probably are guaranteed at 6-6, but not sure on that.

Charlotte does NOT have to take Navy. It is simply a contengency plan after the last couple of seasons.

3601 Wrote:This thread sure took a turn for the worse.

Sure did; it is probably my fault.

L-yes Wrote:I didn't see the same game you saw. I saw UCF move the ball fairly well against USM with a terrible offense. UCF had the ball inside the 5 yard line of USM twice and came away with zero points. One was a chip shot field goal that the dude knocked off the upright and the other was when UCF jammed it down USM's throat with something like 6-7 running plays in a row. RB fumbles at the end of another ripping run up the middle on the goal line.

This isn't USM of the late 90s.

I happen to believe USM had something to do with Central Florida's inability to get the ball in the endzone. I guess I was giving the Knights the benefit of the doubt that they are not as bad as their red zone offense looked last night.
CJ

This is the problem. A whole lot of people sitting at home love watching Sunday, Tuesday, and Wednesday night football games on ESPN. Those same people would probably also sit home and watch Monday night football games on ESPN. Unfortunately, however, these games are quite often horrible for fan attendance and event atmosphere. They help the schools obtain media exposure but they cost them dearly in important areas such as attendance and revenue. I am not even sure if places like Michigan or Ohio State could completely sell out weeknight games like these. Maybe ESPN should just film them in a television studio.

L-yes Wrote:

Tigeer Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

Tigeer Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

Tigeer Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

Tigeer Wrote:You guys are acting like the Siskel and Ebert of CUSA. Must be easy from the BE side of the fence.

USM must have been much better when they were beating the UoL half the time - right?

CUSA is definitely down, especially the East Side. You can almost throw all the teams in this league in one pot and add in just one different ingredient on a different day (in conference schedule, home versus away, one injury) and get a different result. Pretty much most of the teams mirror each other - a few NFL caliber players, lack of D and O line depth and decent coaches. Put it all together and what do you get - plain vanilla teams but excitement for the league but not nationally cause you really don't know who the hell is going to win.

Well they were ranked in the top 15 for much of the time they were beating us. They were ranked 13th in 2000 or 01 when we beat the hell out of them @ their homecoming. They haven't been the same since and we went on to win next and last 3 meetings.

And in fairness to this side of the fence we ran through CUSA like a hot knife through butter our last year in the league and its only gotten worse. So yeah it is easy.

I didn't say it wasn't easy - I said anyone can win. From my vantage point the last time Memphis and Louisville played the defense on both sides of the ball looked like butter.

DeAngelo does that to NFL defenses now and we still won the game. It was one of the few competitive games we had in CUSA all season.

Oh sorry, I forgot - DeAngelo was the only player on the team. I guess he did it all by himself the year before that at Louisville as well.

Again, I am not arguing with you one bit; I know the league Memphis is in is mediocre at best. It isn't light years different from when the UoL was in it either.

Huh? You think the best running back by far in the history of your school doesn't make a significant difference in winning or losing games?

The league IS light years different! Rice, SMU, Tulsa, UCF, etc. make it so! UAB isn't what they used to be either- they just lost to one of the worst programs in all of college football. As was mentioned Louisville, USM and TCU were all competitive OOC vs. BCS competition. That just isnt there anymore and what is left has been diluted by the introduction of some hideous college football programs. Another example; ECU is just now coming back around but its not a stretch to say they are a shell of what they were in the late 90s.

One player can be a difference maker but not enough by himself to do what Memphis did the past three years; it took others as well.

Not sure why but you are testy about this CUSA thing?

I repeat:

CUSA is definitely down, especially the East Side. You can almost throw all the teams in this league in one pot and add in just one different ingredient on a different day (in conference schedule, home versus away, one injury) and get a different result. Pretty much most of the teams mirror each other - a few NFL caliber players, lack of D and O line depth and decent coaches. Put it all together and what do you get - plain vanilla teams with excitement for the league but not nationally cause you really don't know who the hell is going to win.

And as 3601 said to paraphrase - It is down, but I hope it is a cyclical thing.

I'm not being testy I'm pointing out facts. There's nothing down about a league that has rebuilt itself with some historically terrible programs and some others that have failed to pan out thus far (see marshall). It's never been 'up' before.

As for DeAngelo I know there were other aspects to your teams success, notably the O-line and your QB for several of those seasons but you get the point I'm making. I hope. There was exceptional talent at Memphis the last years we were in the league. If you don't want to admit that you have your head in the sand.

I'm glad conference play is exciting for CUSA fans. Good for you, enjoy your league.

OK - in its current format it started down and is still down - I can only hope it will get better or at minimum the Tigers get better.

How would you have rebuilt the league?

You know a lot of folks outside the BE were saying some not so good things about its additions as well, not the UoL in particular but USF and UC for sure. Not me as I do have a vested interest in the BE as well.

Further, I have no choice but to enjoy CUSA for my Tigers. Again, I know the league is not that good but it seems that you enjoy that fact.

Good luck and keep on winning. I want to see an undefeated match-up Nov. 2nd.

To me, it's too early to tell if CUSA is down this year. I think CUSA has already beaten more BCS teams than we did all of last season & I know ECU has a good chance beating a couple more. If Houston can get by Miami, they have as good a shot as Louisville and West Virginia of going undefeated. I think to be objective we will all have to wait until after the bowl season to see just how well any conference performed this year.

Brick City Pirate Wrote:To me, it's too early to tell if CUSA is down this year. I think CUSA has already beaten more BCS teams than we did all of last season & I know ECU has a good chance beating a couple more. If Houston can get by Miami, they have as good a shot as Louisville and West Virginia of going undefeated. I think to be objective we will all have to wait until after the bowl season to see just how well any conference performed this year.

Your team's performance against WVU was a good one as well.

I don't know how CUSA couldn't be down considering the tact they took in the expansion process. From the outside looking in, it seems that league was just trying to get to 12. What kind of football/bball value does Rice bring? Or SMU? That league has some serious dead weight. How scary was it that UTEP was basically an after thought, and only brought in when TCU departed. UTEP is probably the best CUSA school in terms of hoops/football this side of memphis.

-- Again, from the outside looking in the loss of TCU was critical. I know a lot of CUSA fans argue about who the flagship is etc. TCU was supposed to be the flagship of NCUSA. It may take awhile for a new footbal power to emerge. The BE was fortunate that when the raid happened, WVU and UL were really on the upswing and took the place (for the short term at least) that Miami and VT held most yrs


Jackson

It's still early in the season - all of this good-will toward the Big East could evaporate in a hurry with a couple embarassing losses, and CUSA could still come through with some big wins.

That being said: CUSA appears to be recovering poorly thus far from expansion.

CardinalJim Wrote:Interesting reading some of the comments here. I didn't notice the players being undersize as much as I noticed how much slower the players were in this game compared to WVU, and Miami. This was really surprising with UCF being a Florida school.
Honestly Jeff Bower and USM like to win ugly and this game was a perfect example of this philosophy. The Eagles beat you with good defensive football. They want to disrupt your rhythm and make your offense struggle.
As for Tuesday night football, I love it. This was my first opportunity to see UCF and I always enjoy watching the Eagles. I have ESPN Gameplan and don't always make it point to watch CUSA games if there is a Big East team playing. Being a college football fan, if a CUSA game is televised on Tuesday or Wednesday, I'll watch because its the only game on.
CJ

And yes, they were very slow.

Brick City Pirate Wrote:L-Yes, it's good you are scouting CUSA teams since your Cards might be playing in the Birmingham Bowl this year. Not trying to be cute, but isn't there a chance that Notre Dame will take the Gator Bowl & Navy the Charlotte Bowl? If that's the case, isn't there a good chance either a one loss Louisville or West Virginia might end up playing in the Birmingham Bowl?

You want to tell me why Fiesta Bowl scouts were at the KSU and Louisville game last Saturday? They were setting with Tom Jurich!

wvucrazed Wrote:That being said: CUSA appears to be recovering poorly thus far from expansion.

There is no doubt about that. C-USA teams were 2-20 vs. BCS opponents last season. This year it is only slightly better so far (3-17). Obviously, C-USA is no where near the BCS conferences in quality and probably trails the MWC and the WAC by quite a distance as well. It is what it is.

KNIGHTTIME Wrote:

CollegeCard Wrote:Yes, I am not trying to slam but it certainly wasn't an impressive display. I wasn't expecting much from UCF, but I didn't realize Moffett was that poor of a QB. It was clear from the broadcast that everyone in the program & in Orlando was more than aware of his struggles coming into tonight, but man he looked bad. His throws were either off the receivers or into heavy traffic, and he was surprisingly bad for a SR at reading the defenders.

USM's defense didn't look bad, but against UCF not much can be read into that. The USM offense however was a dissapointment. UCF came in with a bottom 5 defense in the nation, and USM for all intents and purposes scored 1 TD on offense. I know the late 1st half FG is technically offensive, but the blocked punt gave them the ball in the red zone and they couldn't punch it in. Then the 2nd TD was an INT runback.

Throw in light attendance of 23,540, combined with the fact that UCF was giving sideline seats away from FREE the last fews days (Per CUSA board), and who knows how many of the 23k paid anything to be there. I guess fans are fans when it comes to cheering, but handing out tickets isn't getting the unversity any revenue. Needless to say, but not the most impressive performance tonight. Good thing for ESPN there are plenty of people like me that will watch any game on a weeknight.

Despite the showing, I'd say USM is still the favorite to win the East unless they lose to Tulsa and/or Houston from the West while some other Eastern team gets to play the weaklings from the bottom of the West, just by luck of the draw.

Attendance- Actually not bad for a tuesday night game with bad weather all day. The weather wasn't bad at kickoff though. It was pouring at 6:30pm at my house.

Concern about Revenue? We will have a budget of $30 million next year. This year is over $26 million...

Moffett (UCF QB)- He looks horrible in some games then good in other games. We need to land a solid QB in the off season. We have plenty of QB's interested in coming to UCF.

The bottom line is you have to get into a bcs conf and I am in favor of a football only add like Temple was.
We must get to ten and then split from the BB schools,once the split is announced we go to 12 teams.
:uberbow:

Memphis, E Carolina, S miss, Ucf and away we go..........Big East.

Tigeer Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

Tigeer Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

Tigeer Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

Tigeer Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

Tigeer Wrote:You guys are acting like the Siskel and Ebert of CUSA. Must be easy from the BE side of the fence.

USM must have been much better when they were beating the UoL half the time - right?

CUSA is definitely down, especially the East Side. You can almost throw all the teams in this league in one pot and add in just one different ingredient on a different day (in conference schedule, home versus away, one injury) and get a different result. Pretty much most of the teams mirror each other - a few NFL caliber players, lack of D and O line depth and decent coaches. Put it all together and what do you get - plain vanilla teams but excitement for the league but not nationally cause you really don't know who the hell is going to win.

Well they were ranked in the top 15 for much of the time they were beating us. They were ranked 13th in 2000 or 01 when we beat the hell out of them @ their homecoming. They haven't been the same since and we went on to win next and last 3 meetings.

And in fairness to this side of the fence we ran through CUSA like a hot knife through butter our last year in the league and its only gotten worse. So yeah it is easy.

I didn't say it wasn't easy - I said anyone can win. From my vantage point the last time Memphis and Louisville played the defense on both sides of the ball looked like butter.

DeAngelo does that to NFL defenses now and we still won the game. It was one of the few competitive games we had in CUSA all season.

Oh sorry, I forgot - DeAngelo was the only player on the team. I guess he did it all by himself the year before that at Louisville as well.

Again, I am not arguing with you one bit; I know the league Memphis is in is mediocre at best. It isn't light years different from when the UoL was in it either.

Huh? You think the best running back by far in the history of your school doesn't make a significant difference in winning or losing games?

The league IS light years different! Rice, SMU, Tulsa, UCF, etc. make it so! UAB isn't what they used to be either- they just lost to one of the worst programs in all of college football. As was mentioned Louisville, USM and TCU were all competitive OOC vs. BCS competition. That just isnt there anymore and what is left has been diluted by the introduction of some hideous college football programs. Another example; ECU is just now coming back around but its not a stretch to say they are a shell of what they were in the late 90s.

One player can be a difference maker but not enough by himself to do what Memphis did the past three years; it took others as well.

Not sure why but you are testy about this CUSA thing?

I repeat:

CUSA is definitely down, especially the East Side. You can almost throw all the teams in this league in one pot and add in just one different ingredient on a different day (in conference schedule, home versus away, one injury) and get a different result. Pretty much most of the teams mirror each other - a few NFL caliber players, lack of D and O line depth and decent coaches. Put it all together and what do you get - plain vanilla teams with excitement for the league but not nationally cause you really don't know who the hell is going to win.

And as 3601 said to paraphrase - It is down, but I hope it is a cyclical thing.

I'm not being testy I'm pointing out facts. There's nothing down about a league that has rebuilt itself with some historically terrible programs and some others that have failed to pan out thus far (see marshall). It's never been 'up' before.

As for DeAngelo I know there were other aspects to your teams success, notably the O-line and your QB for several of those seasons but you get the point I'm making. I hope. There was exceptional talent at Memphis the last years we were in the league. If you don't want to admit that you have your head in the sand.

I'm glad conference play is exciting for CUSA fans. Good for you, enjoy your league.

OK - in its current format it started down and is still down - I can only hope it will get better or at minimum the Tigers get better.

How would you have rebuilt the league?

You know a lot of folks outside the BE were saying some not so good things about its additions as well, not the UoL in particular but USF and UC for sure. Not me as I do have a vested interest in the BE as well.

Further, I have no choice but to enjoy CUSA for my Tigers. Again, I know the league is not that good but it seems that you enjoy that fact.

Good luck and keep on winning. I want to see an undefeated match-up Nov. 2nd.

I would have created a 9 team all sports conference that included TCU.

L-yes Wrote:

Tigeer Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

Tigeer Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

Tigeer Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

Tigeer Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

Tigeer Wrote:You guys are acting like the Siskel and Ebert of CUSA. Must be easy from the BE side of the fence.

USM must have been much better when they were beating the UoL half the time - right?

CUSA is definitely down, especially the East Side. You can almost throw all the teams in this league in one pot and add in just one different ingredient on a different day (in conference schedule, home versus away, one injury) and get a different result. Pretty much most of the teams mirror each other - a few NFL caliber players, lack of D and O line depth and decent coaches. Put it all together and what do you get - plain vanilla teams but excitement for the league but not nationally cause you really don't know who the hell is going to win.

Well they were ranked in the top 15 for much of the time they were beating us. They were ranked 13th in 2000 or 01 when we beat the hell out of them @ their homecoming. They haven't been the same since and we went on to win next and last 3 meetings.

And in fairness to this side of the fence we ran through CUSA like a hot knife through butter our last year in the league and its only gotten worse. So yeah it is easy.

I didn't say it wasn't easy - I said anyone can win. From my vantage point the last time Memphis and Louisville played the defense on both sides of the ball looked like butter.

DeAngelo does that to NFL defenses now and we still won the game. It was one of the few competitive games we had in CUSA all season.

Oh sorry, I forgot - DeAngelo was the only player on the team. I guess he did it all by himself the year before that at Louisville as well.

Again, I am not arguing with you one bit; I know the league Memphis is in is mediocre at best. It isn't light years different from when the UoL was in it either.

Huh? You think the best running back by far in the history of your school doesn't make a significant difference in winning or losing games?

The league IS light years different! Rice, SMU, Tulsa, UCF, etc. make it so! UAB isn't what they used to be either- they just lost to one of the worst programs in all of college football. As was mentioned Louisville, USM and TCU were all competitive OOC vs. BCS competition. That just isnt there anymore and what is left has been diluted by the introduction of some hideous college football programs. Another example; ECU is just now coming back around but its not a stretch to say they are a shell of what they were in the late 90s.

One player can be a difference maker but not enough by himself to do what Memphis did the past three years; it took others as well.

Not sure why but you are testy about this CUSA thing?

I repeat:

CUSA is definitely down, especially the East Side. You can almost throw all the teams in this league in one pot and add in just one different ingredient on a different day (in conference schedule, home versus away, one injury) and get a different result. Pretty much most of the teams mirror each other - a few NFL caliber players, lack of D and O line depth and decent coaches. Put it all together and what do you get - plain vanilla teams with excitement for the league but not nationally cause you really don't know who the hell is going to win.

And as 3601 said to paraphrase - It is down, but I hope it is a cyclical thing.

I'm not being testy I'm pointing out facts. There's nothing down about a league that has rebuilt itself with some historically terrible programs and some others that have failed to pan out thus far (see marshall). It's never been 'up' before.

As for DeAngelo I know there were other aspects to your teams success, notably the O-line and your QB for several of those seasons but you get the point I'm making. I hope. There was exceptional talent at Memphis the last years we were in the league. If you don't want to admit that you have your head in the sand.

I'm glad conference play is exciting for CUSA fans. Good for you, enjoy your league.

OK - in its current format it started down and is still down - I can only hope it will get better or at minimum the Tigers get better.

How would you have rebuilt the league?

You know a lot of folks outside the BE were saying some not so good things about its additions as well, not the UoL in particular but USF and UC for sure. Not me as I do have a vested interest in the BE as well.

Further, I have no choice but to enjoy CUSA for my Tigers. Again, I know the league is not that good but it seems that you enjoy that fact.

Good luck and keep on winning. I want to see an undefeated match-up Nov. 2nd.

I would have created a 9 team all sports conference that included TCU.

Not sure that was possible - I think their administration had their minds made up to bolt for a league that they thought would have a better chance to end up in the BCS.

Tigeer Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

Tigeer Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

Tigeer Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

Tigeer Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

Tigeer Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:

Tigeer Wrote:You guys are acting like the Siskel and Ebert of CUSA. Must be easy from the BE side of the fence.

USM must have been much better when they were beating the UoL half the time - right?

CUSA is definitely down, especially the East Side. You can almost throw all the teams in this league in one pot and add in just one different ingredient on a different day (in conference schedule, home versus away, one injury) and get a different result. Pretty much most of the teams mirror each other - a few NFL caliber players, lack of D and O line depth and decent coaches. Put it all together and what do you get - plain vanilla teams but excitement for the league but not nationally cause you really don't know who the hell is going to win.

Well they were ranked in the top 15 for much of the time they were beating us. They were ranked 13th in 2000 or 01 when we beat the hell out of them @ their homecoming. They haven't been the same since and we went on to win next and last 3 meetings.

And in fairness to this side of the fence we ran through CUSA like a hot knife through butter our last year in the league and its only gotten worse. So yeah it is easy.

I didn't say it wasn't easy - I said anyone can win. From my vantage point the last time Memphis and Louisville played the defense on both sides of the ball looked like butter.

DeAngelo does that to NFL defenses now and we still won the game. It was one of the few competitive games we had in CUSA all season.

Oh sorry, I forgot - DeAngelo was the only player on the team. I guess he did it all by himself the year before that at Louisville as well.

Again, I am not arguing with you one bit; I know the league Memphis is in is mediocre at best. It isn't light years different from when the UoL was in it either.

Huh? You think the best running back by far in the history of your school doesn't make a significant difference in winning or losing games?

The league IS light years different! Rice, SMU, Tulsa, UCF, etc. make it so! UAB isn't what they used to be either- they just lost to one of the worst programs in all of college football. As was mentioned Louisville, USM and TCU were all competitive OOC vs. BCS competition. That just isnt there anymore and what is left has been diluted by the introduction of some hideous college football programs. Another example; ECU is just now coming back around but its not a stretch to say they are a shell of what they were in the late 90s.

One player can be a difference maker but not enough by himself to do what Memphis did the past three years; it took others as well.

Not sure why but you are testy about this CUSA thing?

I repeat:

CUSA is definitely down, especially the East Side. You can almost throw all the teams in this league in one pot and add in just one different ingredient on a different day (in conference schedule, home versus away, one injury) and get a different result. Pretty much most of the teams mirror each other - a few NFL caliber players, lack of D and O line depth and decent coaches. Put it all together and what do you get - plain vanilla teams with excitement for the league but not nationally cause you really don't know who the hell is going to win.

And as 3601 said to paraphrase - It is down, but I hope it is a cyclical thing.

I'm not being testy I'm pointing out facts. There's nothing down about a league that has rebuilt itself with some historically terrible programs and some others that have failed to pan out thus far (see marshall). It's never been 'up' before.

As for DeAngelo I know there were other aspects to your teams success, notably the O-line and your QB for several of those seasons but you get the point I'm making. I hope. There was exceptional talent at Memphis the last years we were in the league. If you don't want to admit that you have your head in the sand.

I'm glad conference play is exciting for CUSA fans. Good for you, enjoy your league.

OK - in its current format it started down and is still down - I can only hope it will get better or at minimum the Tigers get better.

How would you have rebuilt the league?

You know a lot of folks outside the BE were saying some not so good things about its additions as well, not the UoL in particular but USF and UC for sure. Not me as I do have a vested interest in the BE as well.

Further, I have no choice but to enjoy CUSA for my Tigers. Again, I know the league is not that good but it seems that you enjoy that fact.

Good luck and keep on winning. I want to see an undefeated match-up Nov. 2nd.

I would have created a 9 team all sports conference that included TCU.

Not sure that was possible - I think their administration had their minds made up to bolt for a league that they thought would have a better chance to end up in the BCS.

It could have happened but SMU, Rice and Tulsa would have had their feelings hurt.

The reason both teams looked so slow Tuesday night was because the field was wet. There was a virtual monsoon in Orlando that ended 2 hours before kickoff. No one could run to the corner. UCF smartly ran between the tackles most of the night. BTW, Kevin Smith is a top-tier running back that you could put in the same company with Bush and Slaton.

As far as TCU leaving is concerned, C-USA got a much better school out of the deal. UTEP has a much bigger following and a solid basketball program. TCU has football and a soon-to-be-nosediving baseball program. UTEP's football team isn't QUITE as good as TCU, but they're not far off. TCU beat TTech and UTEP lost to TTech in overtime - that's a valid measuring stick in my eyes. Don't expect TCU's record to stay perfect either.

As far as the addition of Rice, Tulsa, and SMU goes, those teams will just assure UTEP and Houston will finally be consistant winners. The 4 private schools have similar programs and goals, and now have a legitimate chance at winning games being in C-USA and playing one another.

As far as on-field performances go, C-USA has 3 "good" teams this year. Tulsa, Houston, and USM are the only "complete" teams that are playing both offense and defense. The other 9 teams each have difficiencies at one spot or another. Let's see how well Houston fares against Miami and how well USM plays Tulsa, Houston, and Virginia Tech consecutively these next 3 weeks before we pass final judgement on C-USA overall.

USM@FTL Wrote:Kevin Smith is a top-tier running back that you could put in the same company with Bush and Slaton.

Smith is a good young back who has a lot still to prove. He certainly isn't in the same class as Slaton or Bush though.

Slaton & Smith are both soph's.
Slaton- Avg 146 yds a game in 2006 & 125 yds a carry in 2005
Smith- Avg 79 yds a game in 2006 & 91 yds a game in 2005

Not even close. I didn't dilute either player's avg by counting games they didn't play in, which took out the USF game for Smith this year and multiple games last year for Slaton where he didn't play early on.

Bush is hard to compare to either since he is a full 2 years older. However, I'll just throw out that he rushed for 500+ & 700+ yards his first two seasons as a backup, then since he became the starter his JR yr he had:

-115 yards a game & 26 TD's in 11 games
-When he went out a few weeks ago was the NCAA career leading scorer among all active players (Likely passed by B Leonard at RU post injury)
-Despite an injury will likely be a 1st round pick in the NFL draft

In a few seasons Smith might be in the same class as Slaton & Bush, but not now.

Slaton is "Reggie Bush" quick & Bush is a beast. I still can't get over how my ECU guys were able to basically contain Slation even though he still got over 80 yards.