L-yes Wrote:The Big East is a fine league and can be the best home for a program like Rutgers. That said, until there is a split and true stability comes in the form of an all-sports conference I think the league will be vulnerable to poaching.

Very much so!

templefootballfan Wrote:If Rutgers starts keeping kids home they can compete in B-10. Some of these conf have building since 20' or 40's with 6 schools, to think that statas que from here on out is mistake. Somebody eventally goes to 14 or 16. When the B-E pays 10 million yr, then nobody will leave.

Other than the SEC taking Texas and TAMU from the Big 12, there is no senario that going to make expansion to 14 economically feasible. other than the BE, B10 and PAC 10 there will be no more expansion among the BCS conferences. No conference is going to have their members vote to get less money in order to add teams. This is why I am betting the BE will expand slowly even after the split.

cardtopper Wrote:I know there have to be some reasons, but I'm having a hard time trying to figure them out. For what reason would a team want to leave the Big East right now. Is there a better conference to grow a football program right now? You can play five OOC games and go to a bowl most years. You are in the premier bball league in the country, we have a new contract that guarantees increased funds. What would it take for your team to move, what conference would your team most likely go to. At this time I don't think there's a better conference in America for Louisville.

What would it take to move? An invitation. Cincinnati, Louisville, Pitt, WV, Syracuse would gladly feed their grandmothers to the Bugblatter Beast of Traal for an invite to the Big 10.

Hell yes we would go. But Cincy won't be invited. And I don't think anybody else will be either. The Big 10 needs nobody. Although it may be hard to tell the diffeence, the Big 10 is NOT Procter & Gamble. It doesn't need to keep INCREASING earnings per share and market share. Yeah, they would offered ND. And they would take ND, but they don't need or want a 12th member. They don't need a championship game to get people to notice them.

People who talk like this have NO IDEA of what the Big 10 schools are thinking.

If the Big Ten ever expands, I also feel that they will take Missouri. That gets them a new state adjacent to their current footprint. It also brings in two major markets with St. Louis and Kansas City. Plus that would balance their divisions better.

BIG 10 WEST: Missouri, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Illinois.
BIG 10 EAST: Purdue, Indiana, Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State.

I would hope, in turn, that the Big 12 takes Colorado State from the MWC to weaken them and to alleviate Colorado's isolation as their only Mountain Time Zone school. Plus this would add another rivalry game and ease travel concerns there.

BIG 12 NORTH: Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Colorado, Colorado State.
BIG 12 SOUTH: Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, Baylor, Texas, Texas A&M.

As for the MWC, screw them, Colorado State would follow the money and their big brothers. TCU would realize that they should have stayed in CUSA but it would be too late to go back. The WAC would stand firm and quickly surpass the MWC.

Bearcat 1984 Wrote:

cardtopper Wrote:I know there have to be some reasons, but I'm having a hard time trying to figure them out. For what reason would a team want to leave the Big East right now. Is there a better conference to grow a football program right now? You can play five OOC games and go to a bowl most years. You are in the premier bball league in the country, we have a new contract that guarantees increased funds. What would it take for your team to move, what conference would your team most likely go to. At this time I don't think there's a better conference in America for Louisville.

What would it take to move? An invitation. Cincinnati, Louisville, Pitt, WV, Syracuse would gladly feed their grandmothers to the Bugblatter Beast of Traal for an invite to the Big 10.

Hell yes we would go. But Cincy won't be invited. And I don't think anybody else will be either. The Big 10 needs nobody. Although it may be hard to tell the diffeence, the Big 10 is NOT Procter & Gamble. It doesn't need to keep INCREASING earnings per share and market share. Yeah, they would offered ND. And they would take ND, but they don't need or want a 12th member. They don't need a championship game to get people to notice them.

People who talk like this have NO IDEA of what the Big 10 schools are thinking.

Bingo! Personally I don't care about the Big Ten and I DEFINITELY don't want to go to the SEC. I think that the Big East will be just fine, but your post pretty much sums up a huge part of the reason why the Big Ten won't expand.

CatsClaw Wrote:All i can say is, the only people who think that the Big Ten is going to expand are people HOPING to get into the Big Ten. The Big Ten has no reason or desire to pick up a 12th program.

Bet you were one of the ones who used to say the Pac-10 and the Big 10 will NEVER have a conference basketball tournament. ;-)

IMHO, people who deal with absolutes are being short-sighted and ultimately are the ones who will say things like "...we were blind-sided by (such and such)..."

The truth is they weren't blind sided by others, in reality they were simply blind.

Cheers,
Neil

Shannon Panther Wrote:The good news is that there is very little possiblity of another ACC type raid. There is no economic incentive to go to 14 teams, so the ACC, and SEC are out.

Agreed. At this time there is no economic incentive to go to 14 teams.

However, 5-10 years down the road, if the Big 10 TV Channel winds up being a huge success and not a minimal success or a revenue-loser, there could be. The Big East's bb contract may have recently doubled in value while only increasing from 14 to 16 schools simply as a result of changing markets and having more competition for TV outlets.

Quote:The Big 10 might take one team, but my guess is that they would look to Missouri first because they bring a new state and 2 major cities to the Big 10 footprint. We could survive the loss of a single team and remain a viable BCS conference.

Again, when they do expand, I am truly hoping they make the mistake of taking Missouri.

Cheers,
Neil

L-yes Wrote:The Big East is a fine league and can be the best home for a program like Rutgers. That said, until there is a split and true stability comes in the form of an all-sports conference I think the league will be vulnerable to poaching.

split or no split the NBE is vunerable. the good thing is it doesnt look like anyone is going shopping any time soon. If be split and added 2 to get to 10 or added 1 to get to 9 or added 4 to get to 12 and big 10 decided to go to 12 they still would get their choice of whats out there.

omnicarrier Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:All i can say is, the only people who think that the Big Ten is going to expand are people HOPING to get into the Big Ten. The Big Ten has no reason or desire to pick up a 12th program.

Bet you were one of the ones who used to say the Pac-10 and the Big 10 will NEVER have a conference basketball tournament. ;-)

IMHO, people who deal with absolutes are being short-sighted and ultimately are the ones who will say things like "...we were blind-sided by (such and such)..."

The truth is they weren't blind sided by others, in reality they were simply blind.

Cheers,
Neil

Actually, ironically, I told my father back in the mid-90s that I thought that the Big Ten WOULD have a basketball tournament. I admit though, I never thought that the Pac-10 would have one.

goodknightfl Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:The Big East is a fine league and can be the best home for a program like Rutgers. That said, until there is a split and true stability comes in the form of an all-sports conference I think the league will be vulnerable to poaching.

split or no split the NBE is vunerable. the good thing is it doesnt look like anyone is going shopping any time soon. If be split and added 2 to get to 10 or added 1 to get to 9 or added 4 to get to 12 and big 10 decided to go to 12 they still would get their choice of whats out there.

I agree. People think that these last round of expansion is a sign of a slew of more expansions. That is not the case. This last expansion was made ONLY because the ACC was a 9 team conference that was weak in football and saw the money a championship game brought. They knew they were behind the times when compared to the SEC, Big 12 and Big Ten, etc. So they modeled themselves after the SEC. Did anybody see this coming? Sure. You'd be a fool not to see at least a strong possibilityof that happening. The ACC had everything to gain from this. They were making crappy money and knew expanding to 12 teams and adding high value programs like Miami, Syracuse (later Virginia Tech) and Boston College would bring in new markets and huge coin. It would make the football conference MUCH more attractive. They were having trouble meeting the new BCS criteria and knew that Miami would help with that. Florida State, at the time, was on a downward slope. And it gave them a chance to put TWO teams in the BCS like the Big Ten did, again big time money is to be gained from that. The expansion wasn't a shock. It was just that it was so sudden. It made sense for the ACC to expand to 12 and add a championship game. It makes no sense whatsoever for the SEC or Big Ten or Big 12 to expand.

If I was WVU or UL you could not pry me out of the BigEast with a crowbar. How many teams in America can honestly say they have a shot every year to play in a BCS Bowl??
With that said WVU and UL will probably be entertaining some offers in the future with the direction their programs are both heading they would make very desirable target for a few conferences.

CatsClaw Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:And the Big Ten has said they don't want a New York market, so why take Rutgers? Because they're winning? Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids!

And if you believe that quote, then you've been tricked.

They took Penn State because institutionally it was a fit and it gave them the Philly market and helped with NYC.

They want Notre Dame not for the Chicago and Indiana markets (which the Big 10 already owns) but for their overall national prestige but in particular for the NYC market and a piece of the Boston market.

If they get tired of waiting for ND and Rutgers becomes real good the Scarlet Knights could help solidify NYC for the Big 10. Rutgers, the institution also fits into the Big 10 model.

It's just that Rutgers being successful in the Big East and Rutgers being successful in the Big 10 aren't the same thing. And being a good team right now doesn't mean they are or will develop into a good program.

The Big 10 is very patient and will continue to wait for ND, but Rutgers is on the radar and if you don't think so you're falling into the same category of fans that used to say the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse back in the late 90s.

Cheers,
Neil

The problem is that people believe the Big Ten is actually waiting for Notre Dame. They've been "waiting" for decades. The Big Ten has no interest in adding a 12th team. And if they did it likely wouldn't be someone from New York, but someone from another market. As for saying that the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse, actually they didn't. The ONLY reason they were interested in Syracuse and Boston College was because of Miami. And then later down the road to get a championship game. The Big Ten DOES NOT want a championship game. Trust me, the Big Ten is not "waiting" for Notre Dame with some other teams looking to swoop in.

Why does the Big Ten NOT WANT a championship game? I know why Michigan and Ohio State would be opposed, but I would think everyone else would support the move.

CatsClaw Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:And the Big Ten has said they don't want a New York market, so why take Rutgers? Because they're winning? Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids!

And if you believe that quote, then you've been tricked.

They took Penn State because institutionally it was a fit and it gave them the Philly market and helped with NYC.

They want Notre Dame not for the Chicago and Indiana markets (which the Big 10 already owns) but for their overall national prestige but in particular for the NYC market and a piece of the Boston market.

If they get tired of waiting for ND and Rutgers becomes real good the Scarlet Knights could help solidify NYC for the Big 10. Rutgers, the institution also fits into the Big 10 model.

It's just that Rutgers being successful in the Big East and Rutgers being successful in the Big 10 aren't the same thing. And being a good team right now doesn't mean they are or will develop into a good program.

The Big 10 is very patient and will continue to wait for ND, but Rutgers is on the radar and if you don't think so you're falling into the same category of fans that used to say the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse back in the late 90s.

Cheers,
Neil

The problem is that people believe the Big Ten is actually waiting for Notre Dame. They've been "waiting" for decades. The Big Ten has no interest in adding a 12th team. And if they did it likely wouldn't be someone from New York, but someone from another market. As for saying that the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse, actually they didn't. The ONLY reason they were interested in Syracuse and Boston College was because of Miami. And then later down the road to get a championship game. The Big Ten DOES NOT want a championship game. Trust me, the Big Ten is not "waiting" for Notre Dame with some other teams looking to swoop in.

Why does the Big Ten NOT WANT a championship game? I know why Michigan and Ohio State would be opposed, but I would think everyone else would support the move.

DawgNBama Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:And the Big Ten has said they don't want a New York market, so why take Rutgers? Because they're winning? Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids!

And if you believe that quote, then you've been tricked.

They took Penn State because institutionally it was a fit and it gave them the Philly market and helped with NYC.

They want Notre Dame not for the Chicago and Indiana markets (which the Big 10 already owns) but for their overall national prestige but in particular for the NYC market and a piece of the Boston market.

If they get tired of waiting for ND and Rutgers becomes real good the Scarlet Knights could help solidify NYC for the Big 10. Rutgers, the institution also fits into the Big 10 model.

It's just that Rutgers being successful in the Big East and Rutgers being successful in the Big 10 aren't the same thing. And being a good team right now doesn't mean they are or will develop into a good program.

The Big 10 is very patient and will continue to wait for ND, but Rutgers is on the radar and if you don't think so you're falling into the same category of fans that used to say the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse back in the late 90s.

Cheers,
Neil

The problem is that people believe the Big Ten is actually waiting for Notre Dame. They've been "waiting" for decades. The Big Ten has no interest in adding a 12th team. And if they did it likely wouldn't be someone from New York, but someone from another market. As for saying that the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse, actually they didn't. The ONLY reason they were interested in Syracuse and Boston College was because of Miami. And then later down the road to get a championship game. The Big Ten DOES NOT want a championship game. Trust me, the Big Ten is not "waiting" for Notre Dame with some other teams looking to swoop in.

Why does the Big Ten NOT WANT a championship game? I know why Michigan and Ohio State would be opposed, but I would think everyone else would support the move.

Because it hurts their chances of getting a 2nd team in the BCS. The Big Ten regularly has two teams in the BCS, the Big Ten feels adding a championship game would almost automatically knock out their 2nd BCS team. A few years ago the Big Ten got two BCS teams because Ohio State (the year they won the national title) and Iowa were undefeated because they didn't play each other. They also don't want to split the money between another team unless it's Notre Dame, that draws money on their own. The coaches want a 12th team though because they think it would help scheduling. A year or two ago the coaches were vocal about it and Big Ten administration IMMEDIATELY explained to the coaches why they WON'T expand to 12. The coaches immediately agreed and that was that.

CatsClaw Wrote:

DawgNBama Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:And the Big Ten has said they don't want a New York market, so why take Rutgers? Because they're winning? Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids!

And if you believe that quote, then you've been tricked.

They took Penn State because institutionally it was a fit and it gave them the Philly market and helped with NYC.

They want Notre Dame not for the Chicago and Indiana markets (which the Big 10 already owns) but for their overall national prestige but in particular for the NYC market and a piece of the Boston market.

If they get tired of waiting for ND and Rutgers becomes real good the Scarlet Knights could help solidify NYC for the Big 10. Rutgers, the institution also fits into the Big 10 model.

It's just that Rutgers being successful in the Big East and Rutgers being successful in the Big 10 aren't the same thing. And being a good team right now doesn't mean they are or will develop into a good program.

The Big 10 is very patient and will continue to wait for ND, but Rutgers is on the radar and if you don't think so you're falling into the same category of fans that used to say the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse back in the late 90s.

Cheers,
Neil

The problem is that people believe the Big Ten is actually waiting for Notre Dame. They've been "waiting" for decades. The Big Ten has no interest in adding a 12th team. And if they did it likely wouldn't be someone from New York, but someone from another market. As for saying that the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse, actually they didn't. The ONLY reason they were interested in Syracuse and Boston College was because of Miami. And then later down the road to get a championship game. The Big Ten DOES NOT want a championship game. Trust me, the Big Ten is not "waiting" for Notre Dame with some other teams looking to swoop in.

Why does the Big Ten NOT WANT a championship game? I know why Michigan and Ohio State would be opposed, but I would think everyone else would support the move.

Because it hurts their chances of getting a 2nd team in the BCS. The Big Ten regularly has two teams in the BCS, the Big Ten feels adding a championship game would almost automatically knock out their 2nd BCS team. A few years ago the Big Ten got two BCS teams because Ohio State (the year they won the national title) and Iowa were undefeated because they didn't play each other. They also don't want to split the money between another team unless it's Notre Dame, that draws money on their own. The coaches want a 12th team though because they think it would help scheduling. A year or two ago the coaches were vocal about it and Big Ten administration IMMEDIATELY explained to the coaches why they WON'T expand to 12. The coaches immediately agreed and that was that.

Ahhh, now I also see WHY a playoff is so vehemently opposed. A playoff cuts off the extra $$$'s for a BCS conference. Follow the money. Hmm.

DawgNBama Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:

DawgNBama Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:And the Big Ten has said they don't want a New York market, so why take Rutgers? Because they're winning? Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids!

And if you believe that quote, then you've been tricked.

They took Penn State because institutionally it was a fit and it gave them the Philly market and helped with NYC.

They want Notre Dame not for the Chicago and Indiana markets (which the Big 10 already owns) but for their overall national prestige but in particular for the NYC market and a piece of the Boston market.

If they get tired of waiting for ND and Rutgers becomes real good the Scarlet Knights could help solidify NYC for the Big 10. Rutgers, the institution also fits into the Big 10 model.

It's just that Rutgers being successful in the Big East and Rutgers being successful in the Big 10 aren't the same thing. And being a good team right now doesn't mean they are or will develop into a good program.

The Big 10 is very patient and will continue to wait for ND, but Rutgers is on the radar and if you don't think so you're falling into the same category of fans that used to say the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse back in the late 90s.

Cheers,
Neil

The problem is that people believe the Big Ten is actually waiting for Notre Dame. They've been "waiting" for decades. The Big Ten has no interest in adding a 12th team. And if they did it likely wouldn't be someone from New York, but someone from another market. As for saying that the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse, actually they didn't. The ONLY reason they were interested in Syracuse and Boston College was because of Miami. And then later down the road to get a championship game. The Big Ten DOES NOT want a championship game. Trust me, the Big Ten is not "waiting" for Notre Dame with some other teams looking to swoop in.

Why does the Big Ten NOT WANT a championship game? I know why Michigan and Ohio State would be opposed, but I would think everyone else would support the move.

Because it hurts their chances of getting a 2nd team in the BCS. The Big Ten regularly has two teams in the BCS, the Big Ten feels adding a championship game would almost automatically knock out their 2nd BCS team. A few years ago the Big Ten got two BCS teams because Ohio State (the year they won the national title) and Iowa were undefeated because they didn't play each other. They also don't want to split the money between another team unless it's Notre Dame, that draws money on their own. The coaches want a 12th team though because they think it would help scheduling. A year or two ago the coaches were vocal about it and Big Ten administration IMMEDIATELY explained to the coaches why they WON'T expand to 12. The coaches immediately agreed and that was that.

Ahhh, now I also see WHY a playoff is so vehemently opposed. A playoff cuts off the extra $$$'s for a BCS conference. Follow the money. Hmm.

Bingo! A playoff makes a TON of sense. Except for the people that control the money right now. It's like telling George Steinbrenner that baseball is going to have a revenue sharing system similar to football and basketball. It sound good for everyone else, except for the big money teams like the Dodgers, and Red Sox and Yankees, etc.

CatsClaw Wrote:

DawgNBama Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:

omnicarrier Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:And the Big Ten has said they don't want a New York market, so why take Rutgers? Because they're winning? Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids!

And if you believe that quote, then you've been tricked.

They took Penn State because institutionally it was a fit and it gave them the Philly market and helped with NYC.

They want Notre Dame not for the Chicago and Indiana markets (which the Big 10 already owns) but for their overall national prestige but in particular for the NYC market and a piece of the Boston market.

If they get tired of waiting for ND and Rutgers becomes real good the Scarlet Knights could help solidify NYC for the Big 10. Rutgers, the institution also fits into the Big 10 model.

It's just that Rutgers being successful in the Big East and Rutgers being successful in the Big 10 aren't the same thing. And being a good team right now doesn't mean they are or will develop into a good program.

The Big 10 is very patient and will continue to wait for ND, but Rutgers is on the radar and if you don't think so you're falling into the same category of fans that used to say the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse back in the late 90s.

Cheers,
Neil

The problem is that people believe the Big Ten is actually waiting for Notre Dame. They've been "waiting" for decades. The Big Ten has no interest in adding a 12th team. And if they did it likely wouldn't be someone from New York, but someone from another market. As for saying that the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse, actually they didn't. The ONLY reason they were interested in Syracuse and Boston College was because of Miami. And then later down the road to get a championship game. The Big Ten DOES NOT want a championship game. Trust me, the Big Ten is not "waiting" for Notre Dame with some other teams looking to swoop in.

Why does the Big Ten NOT WANT a championship game? I know why Michigan and Ohio State would be opposed, but I would think everyone else would support the move.

Because it hurts their chances of getting a 2nd team in the BCS. The Big Ten regularly has two teams in the BCS, the Big Ten feels adding a championship game would almost automatically knock out their 2nd BCS team. A few years ago the Big Ten got two BCS teams because Ohio State (the year they won the national title) and Iowa were undefeated because they didn't play each other. They also don't want to split the money between another team unless it's Notre Dame, that draws money on their own. The coaches want a 12th team though because they think it would help scheduling. A year or two ago the coaches were vocal about it and Big Ten administration IMMEDIATELY explained to the coaches why they WON'T expand to 12. The coaches immediately agreed and that was that.

Ahhh, now I also see WHY a playoff is so vehemently opposed. A playoff cuts off the extra $$$'s for a BCS conference. Follow the money. Hmm.

there was rumors round 2 years ago that the bcs was going to force pac 10, big 10 and the big east to go to 12... so if nd wasn't available i could see pitt or syracuse heading to the big 10

animus Wrote:there was rumors round 2 years ago that the bcs was going to force pac 10, big 10 and the big east to go to 12... so if nd wasn't available i could see pitt or syracuse heading to the big 10

That rumor was started by the internet. It was posted on an internet message board and people ran with it. That was never going to happen.

that rumor was started out of wishful thinking.

1. Big East fans who felt the BE would not survive, and so this was their hope to be rescued from the jaws of mid-major death.

2. ACC fans who wanted pour salt in the wounds of Big East fans. Their efforts to save the BE were useless, because the Big 10, SEC, ACC would gobble up any teams that might perform well.

Ridiculous nonsense based on nothing but fantasy and animus.