I know there have to be some reasons, but I'm having a hard time trying to figure them out. For what reason would a team want to leave the Big East right now. Is there a better conference to grow a football program right now? You can play five OOC games and go to a bowl most years. You are in the premier bball league in the country, we have a new contract that guarantees increased funds. What would it take for your team to move, what conference would your team most likely go to. At this time I don't think there's a better conference in America for Louisville.

cardtopper Wrote:I know there have to be some reasons, but I'm having a hard time trying to figure them out. For what reason would a team want to leave the Big East right now. Is there a better conference to grow a football program right now? You can play five OOC games and go to a bowl most years. You are in the premier bball league in the country, we have a new contract that guarantees increased funds. What would it take for your team to move, what conference would your team most likely go to. At this time I don't think there's a better conference in America for Louisville.

From glancing over the conference boards Syracuse is the only group with a sizable number of posters that want out and they simply want to drop a division in football. Other than that this is a non-issue imo.

L-yes Wrote:[quote="cardtopper"]they simply want to drop a division in football

1-AA? That's absurd. That's simply got to be one or two random folks who've thrown in the towel. I'm sure the majority of the Syracuse fanbase would be totally against it.

3601 Wrote:

L-yes Wrote:[quote="cardtopper"]they simply want to drop a division in football

1-AA? That's absurd. That's simply got to be one or two random folks who've thrown in the towel. I'm sure the majority of the Syracuse fanbase would be totally against it.

They have more than their share of idiots on their Rivals board. You can tell they've never been on the outside looking in BCS wise. They have an incredible sense of entitlement.

Of course this does not apply to all Cuse fans. I enjoy cuserocs and texanmarks posts very much.

The conference has come a long way in 3 years. It went from being on its deathbed and people laughing at it and it possibly not being a viable conference, much less a BCS conference, to being a legit power conference, that is very attractive, the best basketball league in around, a strong television package and being a place people actually want to come and not a lot of reasons to leave. It's VERY nice!

Bluesox wrote:
The irony is the better rutgers gets the more likely the big 11 will snag them
And David K wrote:
Now with the way West Virginia is playing right now the Big 10 will snag them not Rutgers. Rutgers is benefting from not playing Miami and Virginia Tech.

cardtopper Wrote:Bluesox wrote:
The irony is the better rutgers gets the more likely the big 11 will snag them
And David K wrote:
Now with the way West Virginia is playing right now the Big 10 will snag them not Rutgers. Rutgers is benefting from not playing Miami and Virginia Tech.

Those two posters are idiots. Why would the Big Ten want a more southern program like West Virginia? They don't fit into the Big Ten culture wise or academic wise. Not that West Virginia has bad academics, but, philosphically, West Virginia is more similar to the Big East, SEC and Big 12 then the Big 10. And the Big Ten has said they don't want a New York market, so why take Rutgers? Because they're winning? Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids!

L-yes Wrote:From glancing over the conference boards Syracuse is the only group with a sizable number of posters that want out and they simply want to drop a division in football. Other than that this is a non-issue imo.

It's only two posters. Nothing to be concerned with.

CatsClaw Wrote:And the Big Ten has said they don't want a New York market, so why take Rutgers? Because they're winning? Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids!

And if you believe that quote, then you've been tricked.

They took Penn State because institutionally it was a fit and it gave them the Philly market and helped with NYC.

They want Notre Dame not for the Chicago and Indiana markets (which the Big 10 already owns) but for their overall national prestige but in particular for the NYC market and a piece of the Boston market.

If they get tired of waiting for ND and Rutgers becomes real good the Scarlet Knights could help solidify NYC for the Big 10. Rutgers, the institution also fits into the Big 10 model.

It's just that Rutgers being successful in the Big East and Rutgers being successful in the Big 10 aren't the same thing. And being a good team right now doesn't mean they are or will develop into a good program.

The Big 10 is very patient and will continue to wait for ND, but Rutgers is on the radar and if you don't think so you're falling into the same category of fans that used to say the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse back in the late 90s.

Cheers,
Neil

Quote:The Big 10 is very patient and will continue to wait for ND, but Rutgers is on the radar and if you don't think so you're falling into the same category of fans that used to say the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse back in the late 90s.

^^ I was one of those fans...shows you how smart I am lmfao



-- If the Big 10 ever expanded again and ND was not available...always thought Missouri would be the addition....St Louis is not NY, but its still a major market and the Tigers would fit more with the Big 10s mid western profile

-- another angle too is RU is a member of a conference...PSU was an indy when they made the move...several Big 10 officials were very critical of the ACC for what they did in regards to the raid...would the Big 10 do the same thing?

-- IF RU ever did make the move...I think they would have some major problems competively and probably would not see a Jan 1 game...I love what RU has done but they have really been helped by the "power vacum" (as has WVU) left by Miami, va tech and BC....does RU go to a bowl last yr if the old league was still in place? Don't think so

Jackson

omnicarrier Wrote:

CatsClaw Wrote:And the Big Ten has said they don't want a New York market, so why take Rutgers? Because they're winning? Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids!

And if you believe that quote, then you've been tricked.

They took Penn State because institutionally it was a fit and it gave them the Philly market and helped with NYC.

They want Notre Dame not for the Chicago and Indiana markets (which the Big 10 already owns) but for their overall national prestige but in particular for the NYC market and a piece of the Boston market.

If they get tired of waiting for ND and Rutgers becomes real good the Scarlet Knights could help solidify NYC for the Big 10. Rutgers, the institution also fits into the Big 10 model.

It's just that Rutgers being successful in the Big East and Rutgers being successful in the Big 10 aren't the same thing. And being a good team right now doesn't mean they are or will develop into a good program.

The Big 10 is very patient and will continue to wait for ND, but Rutgers is on the radar and if you don't think so you're falling into the same category of fans that used to say the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse back in the late 90s.

Cheers,
Neil

The problem is that people believe the Big Ten is actually waiting for Notre Dame. They've been "waiting" for decades. The Big Ten has no interest in adding a 12th team. And if they did it likely wouldn't be someone from New York, but someone from another market. As for saying that the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse, actually they didn't. The ONLY reason they were interested in Syracuse and Boston College was because of Miami. And then later down the road to get a championship game. The Big Ten DOES NOT want a championship game. Trust me, the Big Ten is not "waiting" for Notre Dame with some other teams looking to swoop in.

Thats why I say this is the best conference to build a football team. Truthfully the competiton is not as stiff as in the other BCS conferences in the upper tier...and there are so few teams you can almost guaratee your fans a bowl game most years. I don't care what you say...playing after the season, even in a minor bowl, is beneficial to a program and it's recruiting. If Pitt and rutgers both manage to go into their game undefeated...they willm either both be ranked or one of them will come out of that game ranked.

Jackson1011 Wrote:

Quote:The Big 10 is very patient and will continue to wait for ND, but Rutgers is on the radar and if you don't think so you're falling into the same category of fans that used to say the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse back in the late 90s.

^^ I was one of those fans...shows you how smart I am lmfao



-- If the Big 10 ever expanded again and ND was not available...always thought Missouri would be the addition....St Louis is not NY, but its still a major market and the Tigers would fit more with the Big 10s mid western profile

-- another angle too is RU is a member of a conference...PSU was an indy when they made the move...several Big 10 officials were very critical of the ACC for what they did in regards to the raid...would the Big 10 do the same thing?

-- IF RU ever did make the move...I think they would have some major problems competively and probably would not see a Jan 1 game...I love what RU has done but they have really been helped by the "power vacum" (as has WVU) left by Miami, va tech and BC....does RU go to a bowl last yr if the old league was still in place? Don't think so

Jackson

Exactly. Here's the thing. Back in 2003 when it was obvious that Miami, Virginia Tech and then later Boston College were jumping to the ACC Pittsburgh and Syracuse loudly and vocally petitioned to get into the Big Ten. One of the programs, I can't remember, it might have been Syracuse, sent out a statement in, I believe October of that year, that the Big Ten wasn't taking them. In a radio interview I listened to earlier that year then-Ohio State AD Andy Geiger stated that while Pittsburgh and Syracuse were fine university, the Big Ten didn't have interest in adding them for a number of reasons. While Rutgers is an outstanding academic university, and if they start winning all the better, I will put down serious money that they don't get picked up by the Big Ten. The Big Ten is interested in a new market like Missouri, etc. The Big Ten isn't interested in another Northeast Market because they already penetrate the Northeast.

CatsClaw Wrote:

Jackson1011 Wrote:

Quote:The Big 10 is very patient and will continue to wait for ND, but Rutgers is on the radar and if you don't think so you're falling into the same category of fans that used to say the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse back in the late 90s.

^^ I was one of those fans...shows you how smart I am lmfao



-- If the Big 10 ever expanded again and ND was not available...always thought Missouri would be the addition....St Louis is not NY, but its still a major market and the Tigers would fit more with the Big 10s mid western profile

-- another angle too is RU is a member of a conference...PSU was an indy when they made the move...several Big 10 officials were very critical of the ACC for what they did in regards to the raid...would the Big 10 do the same thing?

-- IF RU ever did make the move...I think they would have some major problems competively and probably would not see a Jan 1 game...I love what RU has done but they have really been helped by the "power vacum" (as has WVU) left by Miami, va tech and BC....does RU go to a bowl last yr if the old league was still in place? Don't think so

Jackson

Exactly. Here's the thing. Back in 2003 when it was obvious that Miami, Virginia Tech and then later Boston College were jumping to the ACC Pittsburgh and Syracuse loudly and vocally petitioned to get into the Big Ten. One of the programs, I can't remember, it might have been Syracuse, sent out a statement in, I believe October of that year, that the Big Ten wasn't taking them. In a radio interview I listened to earlier that year then-Ohio State AD Andy Geiger stated that while Pittsburgh and Syracuse were fine university, the Big Ten didn't have interest in adding them for a number of reasons. While Rutgers is an outstanding academic university, and if they start winning all the better, I will put down serious money that they don't get picked up by the Big Ten. The Big Ten is interested in a new market like Missouri, etc. The Big Ten isn't interested in another Northeast Market because they already penetrate the Northeast.

Actually, I believe what was said was that they weren't interested in expansion at that time. And of course, since they hoped the Big East would crumble and that this would lead to ND inquiring about membership it was the smart move.

But the league won't remain at 11 forever. They will eventually expand.

First on the list and head and shoulders above the rest is Notre Dame.

But after ND, the candidates are (in alpha order), Missouri, Pitt, Rutgers, and Syracuse.

Personally I hope they miscalculate and choose Missouri (although considering the woes of that school both academically and athletically the last few years that doesn't seem likely), but I'm not foolish enough to believe that they won't consider one of the Big East teams either.

Cheers,
Neil

Jackson1011 Wrote:

Quote:The Big 10 is very patient and will continue to wait for ND, but Rutgers is on the radar and if you don't think so you're falling into the same category of fans that used to say the ACC had no interest in Boston College and Syracuse back in the late 90s.

^^ I was one of those fans...shows you how smart I am lmfao



-- If the Big 10 ever expanded again and ND was not available...always thought Missouri would be the addition....St Louis is not NY, but its still a major market and the Tigers would fit more with the Big 10s mid western profile

-- another angle too is RU is a member of a conference...PSU was an indy when they made the move...several Big 10 officials were very critical of the ACC for what they did in regards to the raid...would the Big 10 do the same thing?

-- IF RU ever did make the move...I think they would have some major problems competively and probably would not see a Jan 1 game...I love what RU has done but they have really been helped by the "power vacum" (as has WVU) left by Miami, va tech and BC....does RU go to a bowl last yr if the old league was still in place? Don't think so

Jackson

Ah, but the same could be said of BC in the ACC and they still left.

And while in terms of athletics I agree (heck, the one Miami person against the move to the ACC was Coker - so he knew what the move might mean in terms of football), ultimately it is the President who will decide.

$$$ and Big 10 TV Channel would be awfully hard to turn down, especially considering the recent budget problems at Rutgers.

Cheers,
Neil

All i can say is, the only people who think that the Big Ten is going to expand are people HOPING to get into the Big Ten. The Big Ten has no reason or desire to pick up a 12th program.

The Big East is a fine league and can be the best home for a program like Rutgers. That said, until there is a split and true stability comes in the form of an all-sports conference I think the league will be vulnerable to poaching.

Quote:Ah, but the same could be said of BC in the ACC and they still left.

And while in terms of athletics I agree (heck, the one Miami person against the move to the ACC was Coker - so he knew what the move might mean in terms of football), ultimately it is the President who will decide.

$$$ and Big 10 TV Channel would be awfully hard to turn down, especially considering the recent budget problems at Rutgers.

-- I understand what you are saying about BC....but Rutgers going to the big 10 would be a completely different animal. There are several schools in the ACC that are not committed to winning in football, or at least football is behind bball in the financial pecking order. The Big 10 is all about football. Every school except Indiana and perhaps Northwestern put tons of $$$ into the sport. Again I love what RU had done, but I cannot forsee a time when they ever will be able to compete with Michigan, OSU, Penn St, Wisconsin, Iowa etc

-- Just another interesting point on the subject. Is it better financially to be in a more lucrative conference in terms of TV money etc and be a doormat, or to be in a BCS conference where you have a chance to win/compete for bowls etc. On the surface one would assume you would make more with the former, but long periods of losing tend to lead to poor attendance, poor sales of logoed itesms such as t-shirts/hats, and less monetary contributions from alumuni etc.

-- Honestly...if you can promise me the BE football schools will never lose the BCS bid...I would not want WVU to join anyother league (even the SEC)....I doubt the Mountaineers could ever compete with Bama, UT etc on a yr to yr basis because of the resouces those schools posses. We would probably suffer the same fate as Arkansas (who was a power in the SWC) or Nebraska when it joined the Big 12....I like winning ;-)


Jackson

The good news is that there is very little possiblity of another ACC type raid. There is no economic incentive to go to 14 teams, so the ACC, and SEC are out. The Big 10 might take one team, but my guess is that they would look to Missouri first because they bring a new state and 2 major cities to the Big 10 footprint. We could survive the loss of a single team and remain a viable BCS conference.

If Rutgers starts keeping kids home they can compete in B-10. Some of these conf have building since 20' or 40's with 6 schools, to think that statas que from here on out is mistake. Somebody eventally goes to 14 or 16. When the B-E pays 10 million yr, then nobody will leave.